LandInvestors.com Forums **Ask A Question** Non-Desert "Way-Out-Yonder" Land Success??

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    George Dean
    Participant
    Post count: 76

    Is ANYONE having success OUTSIDE the Southwest region (South CA, NZ NM, AZ, CO) buying and reselling land with regular success?

    I’d prefer to not be in the desert land buying business?

    George

Viewing 13 replies - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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  • Ben H
    Participant
    Post count: 77
    Pro

    George,

    At this point, I haven’t purchased anything other than Southwest desert properties I will share one piece of anecdotal evidence to suggest that the program will work just as well elsewhere. As part of a desert mailer, one seller had a property she wanted to sell me in the Ozarks (nice, wooded, builder’s lot). Unfortuantely, I haven’t been able to close the deal beause the deed is in her deceased husband’s name and the county records system is antiquated to put it kindly (they can’t even pull a deed unless you know exact Book and Page number – I’m suprised they are able to collect taxes there).

    Anyway, all of that to say this – price was not an issue on this one any more than the desert properties so the program should work just as well. You may not be getting 40 acre properties for $100/AC but with some tweaks I’m confident the program will work. I certainly hope so as I just sent a mailer that includes (500) pieces to a large sub-division in Texas (non-desert Texas).

    Good luck!

    Ben

    Luke Smith
    Moderator
    Post count: 1262
    ProAdvanced

    Got some other land in AK and NC with trees. Also got some land in Big Bear CA up in the mountains with trees.

    The Big Bear sure lights up the phones but nobody is buying it. A lot easier to sell desert land.

    NC and AR sold pretty quick for some nice numbers.

    Was just making offers on desert and those were owned by sellers I bought as well.

    Chris
    Participant
    Post count: 252
    Pro

    I will chime in here with my limited but relevant experience. I’m sending mail to the east coast and I will tell you the dynamics are different. First off the prices are obviously not the same.

    Take a look at the cheapest 5 acre property listed for sale in Arizona, desert land for a few thousand. The cheapest 5 acre property listed in Georgia is about 12k (on landwatch).

    I think a good deal on a 5 acre property in Georgia is more like $3-$5k (25% of listed landwatch prices). But remember that when you’re spending that much money it makes it harder to offer low down owner financing. The average person has a low dollar amount to put down, like $500-$1000. It’s hard to pay $5k for a property and accept $500 down. So you either need to take a larger amount down to get your money back (doable, but not as many buyers) or flip the property for a low cash price.

    I’ve found that my response rates are much lower than people have mentioned when purchasing desert land. I guess by definition, desert land with no utilities and no paved roads is already somewhat “unwanted”.

    I also find it harder to find the correct offer amount. There appears to be much more variation in prices based on terrain, access, utilities, roads etc. Whereas desert land does not seem to vary as much.

    So even offering $1000 an acre I might be way off for the entire county.

    OK – SO THAT BEING SAID 🙂

    This still works, you can still buy land at 20%-25% of what the land is listed for on landwatch. There are many people who are willing to sell at less than market value, people who have inherited the property, owe back taxes, moved away, etc, etc.

    I think there is a uniformity in the southwestern part of the country that makes it easier and scalable to buy desert land. The basic principles that Steve teaches still apply but need to be tweaked in other parts of the country.

    Justin
    Participant
    Post count: 25

    …i just sent 700 mailers out to < 0.30 acre lots with offer to buy for $100,000 each.

    Desert is tried and true (landcentury.com/landcentral.com/Landstay.com), but the core principles should cover anything. Just trial and error!

    PS, might need to borrow some cash…

    Justin

    Chris
    Participant
    Post count: 252
    Pro

    @volunteer87 Sounds interesting – how much do you think they’re worth? What made you make offers in that sub division?

    Justin
    Participant
    Post count: 25

    Current market is 175k-500k. Its a shot in the dark. I just know I can wholesale them immediately. I grew up in the area, and quite honestly I want one for myself.

    They are waterfront. no idea what response I am going to get, but it’s worth the cost of a mailer in my opinion!

    Chris
    Participant
    Post count: 252
    Pro

    @volunteer87 Brilliant! That’s probably an underutilized strategy – going after high end. Please report back the result!

    George Dean
    Participant
    Post count: 76

    @diego79

    “I think a good deal on a 5 acre property in Georgia is more like $3-$5k (25% of listed landwatch prices). But remember that when you’re spending that much money it makes it harder to offer low down owner financing. The average person has a low dollar amount to put down, like $500-$1000. It’s hard to pay $5k for a property and accept $500 down. So you either need to take a larger amount down to get your money back (doable, but not as many buyers) or flip the property for a low cash price.”

    I think I would be perfectly OK with those numbers.

    Higher up the food chain has advantages and disadvantages.

    Advantages:
    Less Mailer Competition
    Close with title company (less headaches + title insurance)
    Might be easier to buy & sell b/c of title company
    I’d rather be STUCK owning nice land than desert

    Disadvantages:
    Property less likely to be seen as ‘unwanted’.
    More carrying costs.
    Harder to sell with owner financing perhaps.
    Harder to scale with some serious cash.

    $5000 Invested
    $1000 Down
    $250 a month
    = 16 months to break even
    $3000 a year in payments for a $5000 Investment = Nice

    Thoughts???

    @volunteer87 I didn’t understand what you mailed out. Can you be more specific??

    Thanks
    George

    Chris
    Participant
    Post count: 252
    Pro


    $5000 Invested
    $1000 Down
    $250 a month
    = 16 months to break even
    $3000 a year in payments for a $5000 Investment = Nice

    I think I would be perfectly OK with those numbers.

    They are decent numbers, but the “velocity” of your money as @luketsmith has been mentioning, is very slow.

    If you had $10k to invest, you could buy 2-3 properties for the entire year. Maybe better to flip some in the beginning for cash and slowly build up term deals.

    Advantages:
    Less Mailer Competition
    Close with title company (less headaches + title insurance)
    Might be easier to buy & sell b/c of title company
    I’d rather be STUCK owning nice land than desert

    Disadvantages:
    Property less likely to be seen as ‘unwanted’.
    More carrying costs.
    Harder to sell with owner financing perhaps.
    Harder to scale with some serious cash.

    In my humble opinion, I think you’ve got the idea. The main thing that bothers me is the scalability with higher value property. It’s harder to do 5 deals a month when you’re spending that much per property.

    Also, I just wanted to say something about desert land. I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with it. It’s kind of like any low-end type of product. Like buying a cheap bike at walmart – there is a market for it and for the right price, it’s easy to sell.

    George Dean
    Participant
    Post count: 76

    I could do one or two $3000-$5000 transaction a month comfortably

    Maybe that should be my focus… One property a month on payments.

    Justin
    Participant
    Post count: 25

    @george
    My take away from this is to never have to purchase land with my own cash. I will be seeking opportunities to get properties under contract and option them(wholesale) to interested parties.

    Again,I have no experience in this, so we’ll see if this is a viable strategy or not.

    I also want to get into wholesaling homes as well. I can’t figure out how to find no or low mortgage data on real quest/core logic yet.

    Luke Smith
    Moderator
    Post count: 1262
    ProAdvanced

    @volunteer87 – I want to do homes too. I would start by picking a street and pulling the data from the custom search on CoreLogic. Look at the spreadsheet as to what data is available in that county for homes like you want to query. I bet if you study the data you will figure out what you can search to drop most if not all of the mortgaged ones.

    If you are paying cash for them mortgages should be ok too though. Options? You might have to look into wraps or deals that leave the current mortgage in place. Risk the due on sale clause the mortgage guys put into their mortgage and just go for it.

    If you had the capital to finance one deal on your own but went for options all the way you would be much more in the drivers seat as when things go wrong you would be able to cover it. When you don’t have the capital you are a slave to the bank and others involved in the deal.

    Personally I would rather go down the ladder to where my capital matters and grow up from there.

    @diego79 – when I first read this post I was thinking this one was meant for you.

    Good call on the velocity. I need to get mine up a lot. You guys ever study compounding? Doing that math can wake you up and keep your eyes open to the power of time and money.

    @george – I think you know in your heart you need to deal in something you believe in. If you don’t believe in the desert don’t buy the desert and try to sell it.

    What kind of land would you like to end up with some day? Lot on the lake, ocean, by a ski hill, river, big sky, mountains, north woods, hunting lodge. There has to be something you believe in so much you could sell the heck out of it to others too. Go figure that market out like Chris is figuring his area out.

    I might add on to choose a county served by the e-recording companies too like goepn.com. That would kick up my velocity a bunch if I was in one of those counties.

    Chris
    Participant
    Post count: 252
    Pro

    @volunteer87 Can you tell us the response you got back from those 700 mailers you sent with the $100k offers? I’m curious if you got any takers.

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